From what I've heard, Mozilla Firebird is much better on Windows/Linux than on OSX, only because only recently (in the last 6 months or so, I think) has there even been an OSX build of Firebird. Given time, I'm sure that the OSX-specific bugs ironed out.

I personally don't like the Mozilla suite becuase it does way more than I need it to. Firebird is perfect in that it's only a web browser and (on Windows, at least) a very efficient one at that. I've never used Safari, so I can't compare the two, but hopefully when Firebird on OSX gets better, it will be able to give Safari some competition.

I'm pretty sure that there is a DOM Inspector extension floating around, or at least there was. I want to say the same thing about a JavaScript debugger, but I can't recall either way. In any event, once Firebird replaces the current browsing component of the Mozilla suite as "the" Mozilla browser, there will be a DOM Inspector and JavaScript debugger available for it, because they don't want to lose functionality when the switch is made. They may not be included in Firebird itself, but they will be made available as extensions.

Sorry for the long, rambling comment...I didn't originally intend for it to be this long. :)

-Posted by milbertus on October 16, 2003 09:42 AM

I am in the same boat. Safari and Mozilla open all the time. Safari is much smoother of an app, but mozilla has some great dev tools and bookmarklets and such that don't work with Safari.

-Posted by josh on October 16, 2003 12:25 PM

I recently purchesed Virtual PC (oh, how slow on a 867 DP) after trying every Mac browser alternative because I must now access sites that are only IE 5.5+. Safari is fast, Mozilla has less compatibility issues, but Macs will be left behind on the web without full IE functioning. I am dealing with an increasing number of sites that only work with IE.

We can complain all we want, but some developers will only deal with IE. Who can blame them when they can corner 90+% of the market. (Please, no comments about market share figures)

-Posted by PV on October 16, 2003 12:44 PM

You pretty much use them the same way as I do and I agree with all of your points. I often run into problems with javascript with Safari and it seems to time out rather quickly on complex operations.

Posting comments to Movable Type for example.

I like both browsers, but it seems like I'm using Mozilla more and more, even though it's not as "elegant" in my mind as Safari.

-Posted by Keith on October 16, 2003 01:24 PM

Mozilla is my main browser... ad-filtering is a must for 56K connections!

-Posted by Jason on October 16, 2003 01:36 PM

I've been switching back and forth between Safari and Mozilla on Mac OS X for the past several months. While I am very fond of Safari, it still has a number of bugs and the occasional rendering issue that keeps me coming back to Mozilla. (Plus Mozilla's debugging tools are second to none... Between the Javascript Console, the full debugger, detailed page information and Live HTTP Headers) With the latest release of Firebird, I am currently trying it out again on my Mac.

There are a few things that I highly recommend for Mozilla and Firebird, which make the experience better...

• The Pinstripe theme for Mozilla - This Mozilla 1.4 compatible skin is one of the major reasons I switched back to Mozilla
• Firebird Beta Pinstripe Theme - This skin has great tabs, although the main buttons aren't as nice as the older Pinstripe skin
• Safari Bookmark Exporter - Simple and very useful utility to standardize bookmarks between browsers
• Bannerblind - Remove banner ads using image size
• Adblock - Block banner ads by URL string

On Windows I've completely switched to Firebird. It makes life so much easier than dealing with the headaches and security issues of IE.

-Posted by Patrick on October 16, 2003 01:44 PM

Guess I'm the odd man out. I use safari. I think I have moz on there somewhere, but it's probably .4 versions old. The only issues I've had with Safari are that it crashes when I view keenspot network sites when I'm logged in as a premium member (some kind of obscure CSS bug I think) and occasionally it simply won't access sites anymore and I have to close it and open it again.

I use omniweb on occasion because it looks good and it has internal realtime spellcheck for textareas

I haven't touched IE for Mac since my old online banking provider updated their site from IE only.

-Posted by JC on October 16, 2003 02:05 PM

Safari is my normal browser, however I use Camino to access my credit card accounts to download tansactions into Quicken since it is the only browser that consitantly handles the task error free. I have to use IE 5.2 to access the local realtor MLS search engine because no other browser supports the floating palatte on which the buttons for searching reside; however, if I want to access the tax record database on the MLS site I use Omniweb 4.5, set to tell the world it is IE 6.0 for Windows, because it is the only browser that handles that task. It also will configure HP 300X printservers quite well. I use Mozilla and Firebird on occasion, but don't generally use them. I could never do all this switching without URL Manager Pro, the most used icon on my menu bar!

-Posted by Greg Myers on October 16, 2003 03:21 PM

Try Camino !

-Posted by it's me ! on October 16, 2003 03:32 PM

I still use OmniWeb, as it is the only browser to have a command to open in a new window behind the current window in the contextual menu. My surfing habits (honed on the 14.4K thru 56K modems) consist of me reading a page and openning interesting links in the background while I continue reading the page. I then proceed to the open pages without waiting for them to download (as they have already downloaded by the time I get to them).

The biggest problem with all browsers is focus shifting. If a page in the background didn't load it pops up to the front, usually when I'm typing something.

-Posted by Taras on October 16, 2003 04:06 PM

To be compatible with IE is nice but IE on mac is not compatible with IE on windows. So safari is via the debug menu most of the time compatible with IE on Macintosh but still not useful because IE on OS X is not usefull. VPC is no option anymore since is was bought by MS. The real battle will be to conform the developers to real standards and not windows standards.

-Posted by David van Deinse on October 16, 2003 10:20 PM

Try iCab. I use that as my main browser now that it has tabs. I'm stilling hoping that the next update will include automatic knockdowns of pop-ups.

-Posted by Larry on October 17, 2003 04:34 AM

Now that I'm doing less web development, my browser preferences have changed a bit. Previously I used all browsers, for testing of course, but mainly IE Mac (then one of the most standards compliant browsers), now I use Safari... and all the others!

Being on the standards bandwagon for ages, I've been a bit of nomad, I just can't find the perfect browser! I've long held hopes for Camino (and recent activity is encouraging), and OmniWeb is very nice, but Safari tends to be most comfortable (esp. with Saft for true full screen, and PithHelmet to block ads.)

JavaScript bookmarklets that open Sherlock are nice, but one of the most useful differences is text handing; with Safari you have full Services support, Spell Checking in text fields, standard OS X key bindings (for selection short cuts, shift-option to select, and more advanced stuff.) It really comes down to Safari and OmniWeb for slick, user-oriented UIs (Camino has the will, but maybe not the way?)

I just hope that Apple keep working on the rendering, compliance and performance, or we'll all have to keep switching back to one of the Gecko browsers.

BTW, 'Taras', I too like opening windows behind what I'm reading (or in tabs to keep all related items together), just hold down Option-Shift-Command when clicking the link.

-Posted by marc on October 17, 2003 08:29 AM

I use Safari, although Mozilla has started back in the rotation recently. Managing bookmarks and rendering speed are the big issues for me. Safari wins by a long shot on the bookmark/history side.

-Posted by Scott Palmer on October 17, 2003 04:25 PM

I use Safari for almost everything. I love its bookmark management, it is light and fast and since the last version it has never crashed. But I still have to use IE to access my e-banking account. I also have a virtual credit card account, and that works only in Camino, Firebird or other Moz-like browsers, since Safari has some problems with text-encoding and forms. When these problems will be solved, I'll switch completely to Safari, even though I must admit that Firebird is faster on some pages.

-Posted by Brer Bear on October 21, 2003 10:09 AM